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Take out Double?

ayduckayduck
edited 11:12AM in All Things Bridge
I try to keep my take out doubles ultra-disciplined, insisting on the SOS principles: Shortage+Opening points+Support for all suits

RHO opened 3C and I had:

S K54
H AK9
D AJ85
C T73

I passed. They made 10 tricks. We could have made 10 tricks in diamonds. Just bad luck or should I have doubled?

Comments

  • KilleaveyKilleavey
    edited 11:12AM
    I am only a beginner / improver so this may well be  unsound thinking, but....

    Assume RHO has 9 HCP and the outstanding points are evenly split, and that gives your side 24 HCP.  Give LHO one club and they have an 8 card fit, which means there is likely to be an 8 card fit your way too. So on that basis I would double and keep my fingers crossed. 

    My guideline for a takeout is 15 points including shortage where a void/singleton/doubleton is worth 5/3/1 points, So in this case there are no shortage points but 15 HCP. With 4441 a 12 HCP hand would be enough. 

  • KilleaveyKilleavey
    edited 11:12AM
    And the preempt is in clubs which means partner's response is sure to be at the 3 level. 
  • ayduckayduck
    edited 11:12AM
    You don't come across as a beginner, Killeavey. What you say is very sound. I think what concerned me is that, if partner responded in a major, as one would expect, and perhaps at the 4-level, we would likely be playing in a 4-3 fit. Not nice, with a distributional hand! As it happens, her only 4 card suit was diamonds. Oh yes... the preemptor had a 4 card spade suit on the side, which is a big no-no in my book of preempts!
  • KilleaveyKilleavey
    edited 11:12AM
    ...... your side 23 points!
  • TramticketTramticket
    edited 11:12AM
    The simple fact is that pre-empts work. That's why we bid them. I don't think that you have an easy choice.

    Although you have 15 HCPs, your hand is very balanced with no ruffing potential and no long suits to establish. Your playing strength is not particularly strong. On the other hand you have plenty of defensive strength with two aces and two kings. For this reason, I would not be rushing to bid. As you noted above, a take-out double usually promises shortage in the suit bid.

    You haven't given the form of scoring (IMPs or pairs?) or the vulnerability, but allowing 3C to make when 4D can be made your way is only a part-score swing.

    You haven't given the hands, but I am a little surprised that 10 tricks are available in clubs and diamonds. Your partner's only 4-card suit was diamonds, so she presumably had four diamonds and three cards in each of the other suits (a mirror distribution to your hand?). So presumably declarer held a seven-card club suit opposite a void? Dummy must have held good values in spades for 10 tricks to be available in that scenario.

    But in that case I am surprised that 10 tricks are available for you in diamonds when you only have an 8-card fit, no ruffing potential in either hand and no length winners to establish! Not only that, but RHO can give his partner a ruff at trick 1!

    So I would definitely pass with your hand.
  • KilleaveyKilleavey
    edited 11:12AM
    I ran your hand and 3C opener  through Jack (the World Champion computer bridge program), with your side vulnerable, opp's NV, and Jack doubled.
  • robertolambrobertolamb
    edited September 2017
    Yes, this 23 points is yours!
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